Unwillingly, Wiccan's spell to bring back Hulkling's mother has brought back the parents of multiple heroes, including Ms. America's. While patterning himself after Thor in the guise of Asgardian, Billy limited himself entirely to flight and lightning based spells. The word dmiurgos properly describes his relation to the material; he is the father of that which is animal like himself.[15]. He apparently could not save it from breaking apart without some ladies croaking so how powerful does that make him? It was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan", but gradually came to mean "producer", and eventually "creator". So youre attempts to try and debunk his multiversal status arent gonna work. Of note here is that while Plotinus' student Porphyry names Christianity specifically in Porphyry's own works, and Plotinus is to have been a known associate of the Christian Origen, none of Plotinus' works mention Christ or Christianitywhereas Plotinus specifically addresses his target in the Enneads as the Gnostics. Gnosticism presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable God or Supreme Being and the demiurgic "creator" of the material, commonly identified as Yahweh, the God of the Hebrew Bible. The user is able to perform/cast a rare variety of magic spells and feats that manipulates reality itself to various degrees. In the Apocryphon of John, Yaldabaoth is also known as both Sakla and Samael. Demiurge. Hippolytus claims that Simon used a similar description.[30]. So am I supposed to repeat the same thing over and over again, too? [28], Yaldabaoth is frequently called "the Lion-faced", leontoeides, and is said to have the body of a serpent. Also, considering the evidence from the time, Evangeliou thought the definition of the term "Gnostics" was unclear. [13] ). Wiccan doesn't have sufficient control over his powers to fully utilize the Demiurge's powers. Respect William "Billy" Kaplan, aka Wiccan. The performance might range from a nudge to a certain existential state or outcome, to modified every reality in existence. He has to say the action he wants to happen in order for the spell to be cast. None of which are multivetsal. Acts as a safeguard while the Scarlet Witch and Doom try to access the Earth's Life Force, which is what gave HoM Wanda her powers. All matches made by Wiccan will clear their row or column, dealing damage and generating AP. Quispel[who?] Wiccan and Hulkling are thrown into a prison outside their dimension, but are rescued by Loki. The one also in Immortal Wonder Woman? During their search, Wiccan and Speed openly referred to the Scarlet Witch as their mother and to one another as brothers. Under the name of Nebro (rebel), Yaldabaoth is called an angel in the apocryphal Gospel of Judas. Lol @ "universal" demiurge wiccan. Several systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Being: his act of creation occurs in an unconscious semblance of the divine model, and thus is fundamentally flawed, or else is formed with the malevolent intention of entrapping aspects of the divine in materiality. Iamblichus describes the One as a monad whose first principle or emanation is intellect (nous), while among "the many" that follow it there is a second, super-existent "One" that is the producer of intellect or soul (psyche). He comes from heaven, and it is said his "face flashed with fire and [his] appearance was defiled with blood". and our 22022: "Short statement of the doctrine of the three hypostasis, the One, Intellect and Soul; there cannot be more or fewer than these three. A partially powered Demiurge (aka the Semiurge) holds off Mother's attacks Fully turns into the Demiurge through the power of love As the full-powered Demiurge, he casually removes Mother from existence, who is an extremely powerful matter manipulator, and removes everyone from the pocket dimension into the main universe. Timaeus describes the Demiurge as unreservedly benevolent, and so it desires a world as good as possible. 6). [37] The name has also been inscribed on amulets as "Ariel Ialdabaoth",[38][39] and the figure of the archon inscribed with "Aariel". The ordering principle is twofold; there is a principle known as the Demiurge, and there is the Soul of the All; the appellation "Zeus" is sometimes applied to the Demiurge and sometimes to the principle conducting the universe. It is in the system of Valentinus that the name Dmiurgos is used, which occurs nowhere in Irenaeus except in connection with the Valentinian system; we may reasonably conclude that it was Valentinus who adopted from Platonism the use of this word. Wiccan discovered that he and the newest recruit, a youth with super speed by the name of Tommy Shepard, were identical in appearance. Here he uses an offensive spell but he doesn't repeat the spell. She and Cassie also convinced Billy to change his alias from "Asgardian" to "Wiccan" in acknowledgment of his new powers (and due to "Asgardian" being exploitable by the media in relation to Billy's sexuality and relationship with Hulkling). The idea of Demiurge was, however, addressed before Plotinus in the works of Christian writer Justin Martyr who built his understanding of the Demiurge on the works of Numenius.[12]. Something being made from a gods breath is standard prose about creation. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Loki tells them that they need his help in order to destroy the parasite, and they agree. It's also not in English like normal. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Wiccan and the others were eventually rescued by their teammates and continued avoiding registration. 9). Fact is Demiurge Wiccan is actually barely universal, as we have seen him when controlled by a villain need like twenty years to destroy a single universe clearly not affecting anything across time or the like in the process. After discovering that Hulkling had been going out as a superhero without his knowledge, he and Wiccan fight over the choice to become superheroes again. Forcibly teleports Loki to the Young Avengers, Teleports a car in front of an asteroid so it crashes, Transports Hulkling's "mom" to the 616 from a completely different universe, Locates Bucky Barnes and teleports his teammates to him, Teleports people in close proximity to him. A bit desperate too. When Norman Osborn invaded Asgard with his army of superpowered beings and H.A.M.M.E.R. I have and we still dont know if shes even telling the truth considering theyre are factors that still arent explained that were established in Americas solo run in 2017-2019. Read the scan I posted above. Of the entire team of YA Lite, only Enchantress and Coat of Arms (who had been tested by her old acquaintance, Tommy, aka Speed) were asked to join the Young Avengers. [44] According to one variant of the Valentinian system, the Demiurge is also the maker, out of the appropriate substance, of an order of spiritual beings, the devil, the prince of this world, and his angels. Tanks eye beams from Sentry, and comes out unscathed. Are they confirmed it or hinted about it? The villain was specifically stated to be after the Demiurge abilities and to finally have them at full power when he destroyed one universe and seemingly himself along with it. Someone on the team (which shall be referred to from hereon out as the Young Masters) contacted Norman Osborn, aka Iron Patriot - America's 'Top Cop' and the leader of H.A.M.M.E.R. [10] In this, he claimed to reveal Plato's true meaning: a doctrine he learned from Platonic tradition that did not appear outside the academy or in Plato's text. The Demiurge who created the elder gods is not even the same entity, as the writer who came up with this nonsense for Wiccan confirmed, the great old ones that pic talks about appear to be the many-angled-ones, who are not even the same as earths elder gods created by the demiurge and again get over the fact that it shows him with comic panels, that has happened with lesser characters, what he actually does in that scan is wipe out one being from another dimension mostly powered by Billys standard powers and transport a bunch of fodder back through the portal they were right next to. Thus their understanding of the Demiurge is similarly flawed in comparison to Platos original intentions. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come. They insanely overrated wiccan. View full history. We dont know if shes telling the truth, so as of now its HAS NOT BEEN recton cause the story hasnt even given a chance to prove if shes telling the truth in the first place. Their intent was to kill the Skull to prevent the X-Men (under the leadership of an inverted Storm and Genesis, now the Apocalypse) from taking him. The team was split up, running rescue missions, relief missions, and interference across Asgard. In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Wiccan and Hulkling were surprised to discover their Earth-A counterparts signed up for the Initiative and joined the army without their knowledge. He avoided Kessler at all costs until one day he saw Kessler had found a new victim. The false team, dubbed Young Avengers Lite by Billy, states their intention to continue to fight crime. However, the act only attracted unwanted press. Soon, almost all the young heroes of Earth-616 are assembled to battle Mother's army. In the various branches of the Neoplatonic school (third century onwards), the demiurge is the fashioner of the real, perceptible world after the model of the Ideas, but (in most Neoplatonic systems) is still not itself "the One". In the report of the system of Basilides,[23] we are told that our world was made by the angels who occupy the lowest heaven; but special mention is made of their chief, who is said to have been the God of the Jews, to have led that people out of the land of Egypt, and to have given them their law. He looks at all of reality beneath his feet, Returns to his main body from infinite realities, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Demiurge Wiccan has more impressive feats. He called a large meeting, inviting everyone who'd ever held Avengers membership to join him in the Tower. Meaning his feats are still the destruction of mother, the destruction of a universe over the course of 20 years and useless hype statements that everyone here has, @killianduclark: agreed. In Young Avengers vol. His abilities were first triggered when the Scarlet Witch used her . In Middle Platonist and Numenius's Neo-Pythagorean cosmogenies, the Demiurge is second God as the nous or thought of intelligibles and sensibles[4] (Middle Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism overlapped: both originating in the early 1st century BC and extending through to the end of the 2nd century AD or even into the 3rd century). Iron Lad explained he needed help protecting himself from his future self, called Kang. Wiccan is a playable character in the MMO game, Wiccan appears as a playable character in. Billy took to her so well that, later, at a Young Avengers meeting, he vouched for Sylvie. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. For Billy to activate his reality-bending magic, He must focus on a desire or idea and vocalize, repeating quickly what he wants in order for a spell to be cast. The dyad is energeia emanated by the one that is then the work, process or activity called nous, Demiurge, mind, consciousness that organizes the indeterminate vitality into the experience called the material world, universe, cosmos. In response, Billy, now enraged, summoned a devastating blast of lightning that quickly took down the entire Wrecking Crew. It's unclear whether or not he used magic to defend at all. Demiurge, under Mor-I-Dun's control, attacked the Avengers and his husband, King Hulk . But it is only the name that can be said to be specially Valentinian; the personage intended by it corresponds more or less closely with the Yaldabaoth of the Ophites, the great Archon of Basilides, the Elohim of Justinus, etc. Attack on the Gnostic doctrine of the making of the universe by a fallen soul, and on their despising of the universe and the heavenly bodies (chs. Nebro creates six angels in addition to the angel Saklas to be his assistants. 07:49AM Flabbergasted, he then admitted that she was his favorite Avenger. He and Teddy decided to work with her, and took her out on a training mission against Hydra squadrons. Until 1974 etymologies deriving from the unattested Aramaic: , romanized: bhth supposedly meaning 'chaos' represented the majority view. Christ, in reality, is the Son of the Good God. Whereas Plato's Demiurge is good wishing good on his creation, Gnosticism contends that the Demiurge is not only the originator of evil but is evil as well. After three months in exile, Wiccan and the team are approached by the former X-Man and mutant Prodigy, who tells them that Speed, Wiccan's twin brother, was kidnapped by a mysterious figure wearing a Patriot uniform. The Super-Skrull revealed to Teddy that he was "Dorrek VIII" the rightful heir to the Skrull Empire. The philosophical usage and the proper noun derive from Plato's Timaeus, written c.360 BC, where the demiurge is presented as the creator of the universe. He wiped out Mother and nothing else. He was supposed to have been safely locked away, guarded by the Avengers, but when a recently inverted group of Avengers (Sam Wilson, Scarlet Witch, Luke Cage, Wasp, Medusa, and Thor) went to check on him, they found that he'd escaped. The false other-worldliness of the Gnostics leads to immorality (ch. Eventually he is to become the Demiurge, a being that will change the very fundamentals of magic in the past and the future. A woman jogger passed by and asked him if he was okay because she saw the boy was bleeding. Thus Sophia's power becomes enclosed within the material forms of humanity, themselves entrapped within the material universe: the goal of Gnostic movements was typically the awakening of this spark, which permitted a return by the subject to the superior, non-material realities which were its primal source. Wiccan appears in 645 issues. This_Confused_Guy 1 yr. ago Plotinus also elucidates the equation of matter with nothing or non-being in The Enneads[9] which more correctly is to express the concept of idealism or that there is not anything or anywhere outside of the "mind" or nous (c.f. Realizing that the Scarlet Witch must be a prisoner of Doctor Doom, Billy sneaks into Latveria on his own to find her. She returned to her own team, and swore revenge on the Young Avengers. [28][42] And as Achamoth herself was only the daughter of Sopha the last of the thirty Aeons, the Demiurge was distant by many emanations from the Propatr, or Supreme God. Wiccan quite literally became the cosmos from within Mother's dimension, able to flip through time and reality as if they were comic book panels. In order to reconcile Aristotelian with Platonian philosophy,[5] Plotinus metaphorically identified the demiurge (or nous) within the pantheon of the Greek Gods as Zeus.[6]. Wiccan appears as a playable character in Marvel Future Fight. During the events of Dark Reign, Billy and the other Young Avengers encounter another group of superpowered teenagers running around using the name "Young Avengers". But the devil, as being a spirit of wickedness, is able to recognise the higher spiritual world, of which his maker the Demiurge, who is only animal, has no real knowledge. A massive spell cast by Billy brought in evil clones of the Young Avengers that distracted Mother and allowed their remaining teammates and the rest of the team to escape again, but Mother added the clones to her army.Wiccan quit the Young Avengers after that, convinced, through a manipulative suggestion of Loki's, that Wiccan and Hulkling were Billy met Iron Lad at the Avengers Mansion while seeking Scarlet Witch. The devil resides in this lower world, of which he is the prince, the Demiurge in the heavens; his mother Sophia in the middle region, above the heavens and below the Pleroma.[45]. Gnosticism attributed falsehood or evil to the concept of the Demiurge or creator, though in some Gnostic traditions the creator is from a fallen, ignorant, or lesserrather than evilperspective, such as that of Valentinius. Then within this intellectual triad Iamblichus assigns the third rank to the Demiurge, identifying it with the perfect or Divine nous with the intellectual triad being promoted to a hebdomad (pure intellect). Do you read what you are writing? pantheism). The Young Avengers agreed that in order for reality to stabilize, Iron Lad must return to his own time. Wiccan was greatly convinced that their connection to the Scarlet Witch was evident, though Tommy was more skeptical. Hes even been mentioned in Strikeforce another recent comic book run with Wiccan himself. Billy Kaplan never had a problem being different than other people. He is married to Hulkling. 13). But until proven otherwise he isn't. New Music Friday: The best releases out on March 3 : All Songs Considered The best albums out this week include Kali Uchis' Red Moon in Venus, a self-titled joint from the Jamaican American artist . Humiliated and defeated, Osborn ordered the remaining members of his team to stand down, simply stating to the YA that, "This never happened." There is nothing that suggests that he is universal. Billy used his magical abilities to send Sentry away, taking Osborn's most valuable team member off the board. The Demiurge, having received a portion of power from his mother, sets about a work of creation in unconscious imitation of the superior Pleromatic realm: He frames the seven heavens, as well as all material and animal things, according to forms furnished by his mother; working, however, blindly and ignorant even of the existence of the mother who is the source of all his energy. 2. Not to mention she proves that she can inhibit America's powers by dosing her with a counter serum. The team continued to fight crime on the streets, including busting dealers of Mutant Growth Hormone, which granted superpowers to ordinary humans. Clown move to be jumping the gun so quickly. Armstrong alluding to Gnosticism being a Hellenic philosophical heresy of sorts, which later engaged Christianity and Neoplatonism.[53][54]. In the future, Wiccan will become the Demiurge, a singular multidimensional Messiah, according to Loki. [40], According to Marcion, the title God was given to the Demiurge, who was to be sharply distinguished from the higher Good God. In the "Battle of the Atom" X-Men crossover event, Billy Kaplan is one of the future X-Men, alongside a Phoenix-powered Quentin Quire, Jubilee (who goes by the codename "Wolverine"), Kymera, Shogo Lee, and Sir Robert (Bobby Drake). He briefly achieves this form, and is able to view the past, present and future, as well as freely alter the universe. This tradition of creator God as nous (the manifestation of consciousness), can be validated in the works of pre-Plotinus philosophers such as Numenius, as well as a connection between Hebrew and Platonic cosmology (see also Philo).[11]. hansfenton123 You just said yourself the universe he destroyed was fixed by time travel, so not beyond time or reality or time travel would not affect it. The team travels to Europe to find her, but instead find a doombot posing as her. The true doctrine of Soul (ch. on 01/09/22 His spellcasting is unique, however. He has the power to rewrite and shape reality to his will. Teleports his teammates who were spread out at the time mid-fight, so he has good accuracy when it comes to teleporting. Lol @ universal demiurge wiccan. People need to get over the fact that they potrayed it as him standing on the comic panels. You're like one of those Supes Prime One Million fanboys. They were interrupted by a troupe of Kree soldiers who revealed Hulkling to be half-Kree as well and the son of their greatest warrior, Captain Marvel. Last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49, introducing citations to additional sources, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Against the Gnostics; or, Against Those that Affirm the Creator of the Cosmos and the Cosmos Itself to be Evil, International Society for Neoplatonic Studies, Dark Mirrors of Heaven: Gnostic Cosmogony, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demiurge&oldid=1141744969, This page was last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49. The Monad emanated the demiurge or Nous (consciousness) from its "indeterminate" vitality due to the monad being so abundant that it overflowed back onto itself, causing self-reflection. Wiccan can augment his strength through magic. A. H. Armstrong identified the so-called "Gnostics" that Plotinus was attacking as Jewish and Pagan, in his introduction to the tract in his translation of the Enneads. 2). A second? The members are Quentin Quire, Patriot, Lightspeed, Speedball and Sophie, Mindee and Esme Cuckoo. (Kick Duck Dancing) 16:52 GG - Petrivka 19:49 Daniel Christian ft. Kolly Dee - Slava Ukraine 23:19 Andrew StetS feat. The Superhero Database Classification number, or SHDB Class, is a number that represents the overall 'power' of a character. Doctor Strange has also claimed that Wiccan has the potential to be the next Sorcerer Supreme. With a thought, he puts a group of bad guys in a coma. Of course, their threats were played off and ignored. The etymology of the name Yaldabaoth has been subject to many speculative theories. The demiurge is also[29] described as having a fiery nature, applying the words of Moses to him: "the Lord our God is a burning and consuming fire". Teleports an entire prisoner van to a secure SHIELD location. Answer: Wiccan is a powerful magic user with a unique tie to Avengers history. And as I said before get over the visual depiction we've seen Dice(Skrull Kill Krew) interact with them and he is not even as powerful as standard Wiccan. Billy gave up his superhero career, being mostly grounded by his parents who urged him to register. He started out in the Young Avengers with the code name Asgardian, using only lightning powers. Once Scarlet Witch had heard the full story of his troubles at school, she told him that next time he was threatened the best thing to do would be to stand up to Kessler. 588 B. SMT. Loki convinces Wiccan to temporarily give him some of his powers, and Wiccan agrees, seeing no other choice. At first, it was presumed that Billy was just an electrokinetic mutant with strong sorcery abilities. His origin make it possible that Wiccan is both a mage and mutant. During a trap laid by Iron Man and the pro-registration heroes, in which they planned to immediately take out the resistance's teleporters - Cloak & Wiccan - Wiccan was captured and sent to the N-Zone prison for his involvement with the underground Avengers. The Valentinian theory elaborates that from Achamoth (he kt sopha or lower wisdom) three kinds of substance take their origin, the spiritual (pneumatiko), the animal (psychiko) and the material (hyliko). Demiurge. [7] This is the God above the Demiurge, and manifests through the actions of the Demiurge. Billy joins him at his side, and they play a part in stopping a Cotati invasion of Earth. We've seen it done by far lesser characters. Before the Vision could reveal the identity of the father, a battle erupted between Kree and Skrull forces over the fate of Hulkling. Wiccan's magic is similar to his mother's, the Scarlet Witch. As a Kree, Hulkling was to be enlisted in the Kree army, by force if necessary. Unkindness has fewer feats and it took her a whole longer to destroy the multiverse. Generally though, I'd agree with the take that trying to compare the power of two nebulously defined reality warpers is a bit silly. He has to say the action he wants to happen in order for the spell to be cast. After looking into it, Sam Wilson found that someone with Avengers membership and passcodes had helped the Skull escape. It has been demonstrated that without the ability to hear his own words, the spell cannot be cast, though other uses of his powers have been done seemingly effortlessly and without words. He joined Ultron in attacking the Avengers.