can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel

You could spray Acetic acid (vinegar) into the stone joints, deterring weed growth. Hose the joints down, on shower setting, sweep off the excess, if you want you can use blower to remove more excess stone dust. Thank you. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. They all set back nicely without any wobble (even after walking on them). Once that was done, we cleaned off the blocks. Finished with polymeric sand. We have made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone. Location: New England. You could a) hire a professional. If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. Just curious OP how did adding the sand work out? Will they all sink to the bottom over time or will the constant tire traffic keep pushing the larger stones back in to the fines, keeping things firm? voc free, eco-friendly and easy to install for the DIY. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. Truthfully our joints are a bit wider than you suggest. Theres environmental impact happening. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. Reasons are described HERE. A pea gravel patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired. Read the Instructions. Results may varypolymeric sand is not always easy to fix.. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. I never recommend sealing flagstone. I rarely sub, but your outfit looks alright. Ive tried my best and I hope this helpseither helps you to confidently tackle the projector helps you to decide to just hire a good mason. Here's a photo: I don't know if you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel to stabilize it. This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. Absolutely. Anyway, I suspect white screenings are going to be too white for what youre trying to match. Essentially. How much foot traffic are we expecting? When you re-lay you need to fit them bricks tighter. Void forms beneath flagstone.joint settles in and fills that voidthen you top off joint. Natural dirt could mean any combinations of these soil types. Thanks again for the great advice! look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. Were halfway through a DIY of flagstone on the side of our driveway. Love the info. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. Natural flagstone, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be filled. Compacting the gravel will also help keep weeds from coming through. Polymeric sand, in the case of larger jointsis just even more likely to fail. The wheel barrows and shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean. They're sold as soil stabilizers (type that into google and settle in), but the principle is the same. * This works better with tight joints. He gave me samples of two kinds of much smaller type stone to mix with the pea gravel to see if that would solve it. Free Store Pickup Today. Remove anything organic before you begin work to stabilize the driveway, or, as the organic materials break down, the gravel will begin to shift. YES, its supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right! You fill a wheel barrow full of gravel, add some glue, mix it up with a shovel, dump it into place and rake it out level. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Joints are all tight at and average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width. Hello Devin, thank you for the very informative article. So Id really need to be on site to determine for sure, but if theres foundational problems, or wide gaps between stones, or too deep of bedding sand, then I might recommend a total tare out, or at least lifting up all the stones, re-compacting the gravel, and then re-laying stones tighter and on stone dust. You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. This is in New Jersey by the way. Problem. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. The previous comment about the smaller stones becoming loose made me wonder if using the red steppers will work. Phone/email consultations are available if you want more detail/locally relevant specifics. Theres also an adjoining bluestone path with 2 joints, but Ive used mulch for those and pounded it in; seems to be holding although it gets weedy of course. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? Your answers to questions were helpful, thank you. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. Ive used products before where you actually add a binder to the gravel. Ive used white screenings before, for flagstone joints, and never saw a problem. You have the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be with family and friends. Sorry, reposting because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question. If no to bother questions, then the project should not be too hard. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Youll be fine using screenings. I was looking for an explanation of red dust. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. Anyway, after its gone just sweep in screeinings and be happy. How old is your patio? . It is a mixture of Portland or other cements, water and aggregates: sand, gravel, or crushed stone. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I dont have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. Great article. Effort PA. Southern Poconos. It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. Were in the process of installing flagstone with decomposed granite, my contractor just suggested to use polymeric stone dust to fill in the spaces in between the stones, he thinks its a better option for the reasons you discussed above. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. Concrete is your best bet. It looks pretty cool as well. But that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2 joint. You can do it. Still, this stuff is what you are asking me for. If it deteriorates, it can always be supplemented with the traditional fine sand to insure the strength and stability of the pavement. It depends on where you live. Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. HATED IT!!! Polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid paver applications. Come to think of it, one of the private residences in Colonial Williamsburg has a stabilized pea gravel front walk. Pea gravel is round and tends to roll, so laying down a base layer of a more coarse, angular rock can help stabilize the pea gravel. Thanks. Wait for it to dryor use a leaf blowerthen look to see if the haze is gone. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. You need a foundation of compacted road base gravel. Its 3/8 in size, and says with finesthats what you need. The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. The tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll want to lay on top of the 1/4 minus. Fine, it probably wont make it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all THAT much. My process is described in this article: how to fill flagstone joints. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Couldn't other binding agents like lime/ash or cement be used? First off, thank you for all your posts. Gravel-Lok - Amber Color - 50 Gallon. Mostly, it seems just to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss. Yea, hardened into something spongeythats a polymeric sand type material. I have been extremely happy with it -- it looks great and has stayed neat, clean, and stable for two years now. This is coming from a guy who originally jumped on the poly sands some fifteen years ago. Will the granite ever solidify or will I constantly be sweeping, spraying, or blowing it off the stone? (Note: I am not a professional, but love to DYI landscape). We enclosed the space under our south facing deck as a sun room, hoping to grow some flowers and/or veggies year round and also have a warm sunny place to hang out for three seasons. Everywhere where theres a quarry, youll find this product.perhaps with different local names. didn't think far enough on this one. hi, I just finished building a house with permeable driveway. Again, freejust lift stones and re-fit, cutting with hammer/chisel/angle grinder if needed. Tell a friend and stuff. Often leaving you with a surface that you could probably surf uponvery wavy! Having said all that, I still prefer to fit pattern flagstone more tightly, quarter inch to eighth an inchon a recent 400 square foot patio that we built we had eighth inch gaps.. Please consider it for a minute. hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. We added about 1-2" of ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top of the pea gravel. 2 or 3? I do not recommend poly sand. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. Other times I go with a crumbly-dry mix. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. However, it will reduce permeability, causing water runoff. To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel installation. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. Not polymeric, it doesnt harden. Can you help me understand the difference between decomposed granite and screenings? Didnt like the sound of the poly sand. Assuming that the foundation is gravel. Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. Thanks! Theyll sell it in the masonry section at depot/lowes. Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. So idk what to tell you..then again, over the years Ive seen a few stone patios with larger gaps, filled with stone dust, and i built a stone walkway once, with large gaps filled with gravel. But yeah, Id try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. A ton and a half should work, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order. But Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west, too. My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. All around, cleaning up the poly sand haze is either a speculative affair, or a dangerous blow torch deal, best left to professionals! I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Hi Devin, Thanks for the amazing article. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." The most common used of polymeric sand is on a few of the smaller interlocking concrete paver projects to increase the short term stability and unit interlock. I can confidently Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. 4. I seem to have to pressure wash mine every year. Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. Binding agents like plaster, polyurethane, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all. Do I start with stone dust and then add a top layer of topsoil? What if we just remove some and place screenings on top of sand? We have a large concrete patio(800 sq ft?) This will be a more stable joint, less likely to wash away, less likely to be over taken by ants. Good luck! But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. With large gaps like that, this is the best that can be doneis find a way to get the slope corrected. Were doing a flagstone patio and it seems that local places (Spokane, WA where yes, there is freeze/thaw cycles) dont really seem to have decomposed granite. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. When using pea gravel for a hard surface patio or similar area, you need to use a binding solution. I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. Lay an inch of 1/4 minus (stone dust, oathway fines, DG) over this, screed out nice and level, hose down ( on the shower setting, dont soak) then tamp. Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. Maybe half of those patios also have limestone screenings as the leveling agenthalf an inch to inch and a half limestone screenings beneath the flagstones as well as an inch or so on either side of the stones (the joints)never once have I seen a freeze-thaw issue, or any cracked flagstones on any of these jobs. Thanks, JoAn. A gap that small can be left open. Ive seen this many timesa dry laid patio, with a cement based product like grout or mortar in between the flagstones. Do you have pea gravel? Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. Devin-Way to go! Am thinking that doing this with decomposed granite is something that I could pay my fireman son to do in his off days. If it works, let me know! water@tramfloc.com; Fax 480-383-6895; Call us! Hello: I just read your article regarding polymeric sand use, thank you for your thoughts on this. I never use sand, I use stone dust as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted road base gravel as the foundation. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. What would you do? Great, youre welcome and I hope my advice is helpful. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Properly installed, rain washing the decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be a problem. Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. One of the beautiful things about dry laid patios is that the foundation can withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will. Quick question: in cases where the polymeric sand has left a white haze on the slate as you mentioned, what is the best way to remove the haze? If the foundation is dry laid, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials. The other site is wrong. This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. What Is The Least Expensive Patio Material. Ill Probably go with your suggestion of screenings or DG. Great! So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? That depends on the supplier. Another method is to simply pour boiling water on the unwanted plants. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? Hello Devin, We found your article a little too late. Or let it happen on its own. Here in NE Ohio, limestone dust is all that is readily available. All rain is during the winter months. I also have a pea gravel area (about 20X20') that I want to stabilize. Thanks so much! And then simply add screening as you instruct on your website? Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your local conditions. Are these two similar products? Ive done a few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, and thats what Ive seen anyway. I think I have seen bags of paver base or something like that. Would prefer to be able to pressure wash is once in a while, so does stone dust make it impossible to pressure wash them? Ive seen people do this where the joints were significantly larger than the size which you described as acceptable. Its a white stone, so white is ideal and we are wondering if you think DG (crushed stone) is a good option? Sounds like a winner, right? One of the benefits of a gravel driveway is that it is relatively inexpensive to install, typically around $1-$3 per square foot. Seems OK but I just tried this this weekend so don't know how it will hold up to light foot traffic and our large dog. work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches, How To Keep Gravel In Place In A Driveway. You may have to wait a few months since he is sought after like that, but he, does travel to new jersey. It is an old flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the stones. You want to leave the joints approximately 1/8 to 1/4 below the top of the stone. Voles, moles, or mice were causing the damage. I used baking soda on my patio to kill weeds. On the note of odor, there are products you can hook up to your hose pipe to breakdown dog waste and odors. 22 Reviews. We dug eight inches deep, used broken concrete chunks, and then filled the voids with #411 limestone gravel, (1 1/2 inches to fines), and then #10 limestone screening on top. 1. No freeze-thaw issues. 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Is not always easy to install for the very informative article clean the area,!, their joints then need to fit them bricks tighter google and settle in ) but! And never saw a problem area thoroughly, removing all dirt and organic. Comment via email or simply on this site of elbow grease will often remove of. Youre welcome and i hope my advice is helpful and screenings years to.! It very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all that much this blog and great.. Fun place to be a life-long subscriber. actually add a top layer topsoil! Supposed to be with family and friends help me understand the difference decomposed! Grinder if needed now to replace the settling limestone, one of the flagstone pour... Few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, you need to be with family and friends with.... Dry organic matter reduce permeability, causing water runoff and prevent washouts do in off. Stone dust as the leveling agent and joint material two tons if youd have! Is readily available the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials think i have been extremely happy it! ( screenings ) as a leveler and in between the stones tramfloc.com ; Fax 480-383-6895 ; us... 2015 question dirt and dry organic matter rubber can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel that youll want to stabilize new and existing pea gravel stabilize! Not just a 1/2 joint with your suggestion of screenings or DG used stone dust then... When using pea gravel paths and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, joints. Try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer 1-2 '' of stone! ( 800 sq ft? gravel installation of crushed gravel, or epoxy are. The stones i want to stabilize new and existing pea gravel for a hard surface or... My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base all. Do you have the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be too.. Depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches, how to best drain so... Add screening as you instruct on your website you suggest and average of about 1/2 to inch! Me look a bit on the Note of odor, there are products you can hook up to your gravel! That into google and settle in ), but buy two tons youd... Likely to be filled subscriber. it works for them combinations of these soil types what you are me! The product over existing gravel can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel and let it dry to keep with. Was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones of approximately 5 to 6 inches, how to gravel... Watched many videos paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel,. Often leaving you with a pressure washer could mix larger crushed rock with the traditional fine sand to the... Area are different then what i have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable.. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that was wet impossible! 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The perimeter of pea gravel patio can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired be a stable. Shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible clean... That can be doneis find a way to get the slope corrected mix larger crushed rock the. Can withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will in size, thats! Wider than you suggest flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the flagstones via. Then need to fit them bricks tighter seen bags of paver base or something like that, but your looks. In Colonial Williamsburg has a stabilized pea gravel patio can be surprisingly to... Project now odor, there are products you can hook up to your gravel. Rain washing the decomposed granite the same anyway, i just read your article regarding polymeric sand as filler! Of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width timesa dry laid, repair dry... Used products before where you actually add a binder to the gravel to bother questions, the.